1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,000 The Andreessen Affair, the documented investigation of a woman's abduction aboard a UFO. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,000 Mr. Fowler, good morning. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,000 Good morning, Ben. 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000 Nice to be with you. 5 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Before we start talking primarily about the Andreessen Affair and about to, and about, 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,000 and we listen to this tape and I think you'll give us an introduction to that in a few minutes. 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:26,840 How did one come from being a UFO, a UFO military investigator with the Air Force to, is it just 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,840 a natural kind of sequence to continue this kind of work after the military? 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:36,840 Well, really, I was with the United States Air Force for a number of years, not as a UFO investigator. 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,840 We were doing electronic espionage under the auspices of the National Security Agency. 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:50,840 But within this position, UFO reports did come to my attention, which indicated that the United States Air Force was taking the subject very seriously indeed, 12 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,840 which was one of the things that instigated me to look into the matter further when I got out of the service. 13 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:56,840 So it just developed? 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:57,840 That's right. 15 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,840 Really, it developed from a teenage interest in experimental aircraft. 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:07,840 And when flying saucers became headline news, I thought that we're dealing with another experimental aircraft, 17 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:14,840 but it didn't take very long for me and the public to realize that when you have all the major governments of the world investigating something, 18 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:15,840 that something really must be going on. 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:22,840 Now, for many, many years, and I think this is changing somewhat though, but for many, many years, folks who consider themselves to be, 20 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:29,840 I think objective investigators of UFO sightings were often referred to as the UFO buffs. 21 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:30,840 That's right. 22 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:36,840 That was whether, that wasn't considered too nice in those particular times, too nice praise. 23 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:43,840 The credibility though, it has changed, or at least the credibility of the UFO investigator has changed tremendously, hasn't it? 24 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:51,840 Yes, and I think this probably stems from the fact that more and more scientifically trained people have become involved in UFO investigation. 25 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:59,840 At the manned space center, for example, we must have a couple hundred people who are interested in UFOs and some who are actively engaged in UFO investigation. 26 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:04,840 Back in the 50s, when I was involved in this, more or less, as an interesting hobby, 27 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,840 people of that category probably wouldn't have anything to do with the subject. 28 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:17,840 Even astronaut Gordon Cooper, an astronaut, James McDivitt are now coming out publicly stating that they believe that UFOs are real. 29 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:23,840 Cooper says that UFOs are interplanetary, and he has recounted several experiences that he has had with UFOs. 30 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,840 They wouldn't have done that several years ago. 31 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,840 I think the credibility is much higher. 32 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:37,840 Fifty-seven percent of the American people right now, according to Gallup, believe that UFOs are real and believe that they have seen the UFO, 33 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,840 and there's 15 million people just in this country alone. 34 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,840 How are you involved in John Fuller's incident at Exeter? 35 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:51,840 I was involved as an investigator for the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena and conducted the initial investigation. 36 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:58,840 John Fuller worked for Saturday Review at the time and was interested in UFOs and doing a story and contacted NiCAP and asked what was new. 37 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:08,840 I was right in the process of this investigation and he flew down and looked at my report and went back and reinvestigated what I had done and wrote a very fascinating book. 38 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,840 Yes, yes it was. 39 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:17,840 If you would, give us background so we can lead up to what I understand is going to be a pretty startling piece of audio tape that we're going to be listening to. 40 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:26,840 The audio tape that you're going to be hearing excerpts from comes from one of 14 hypnotic regression sessions. 41 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:35,840 It concerns Betty Andreessen who allegedly was abducted by UFO occupants and given among many other things a physical examination. 42 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:50,840 What you're about to hear is a small segment of that physical examination and I think that you will be able to relive with her the trauma and the pain and the emotion that she experienced reliving this experience under hypnosis. 43 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,840 And she is under hypnosis and recounting the events of reliving, not recounting. 44 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,840 Reliving, okay Zaya. 45 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,840 Listen. 46 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,840 He's taking an instrument. 47 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,840 Oh. 48 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:19,840 Why do you have to put that in my nose? 49 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:28,840 I'm putting that thing in my nose and it's going up and it's breaking through something. 50 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:30,840 I don't like it. 51 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:33,840 Oh and I can't move. 52 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:38,840 It's hurting. 53 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:44,840 I'm pulling something that needle again with a tool like on the end and pulling. 54 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:52,840 Looks like he's pulling it. 55 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:59,840 Oh he's opening up this shirt and he's going to put that in my nose. 56 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:10,840 Oh I don't like this. 57 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:15,840 We apparently had a power failure folks and it really wasn't supposed to happen that way. 58 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:18,840 That gets kind of spooky doesn't it? 59 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:22,840 You want to hear what happened on another TV station down in Massachusetts? 60 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:24,840 Don't tell me this is not the way. 61 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:26,840 What happened? 62 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:37,840 We had two independent tape systems down there taping the TV program when they played it back about every third word was missing all the way through the show and to the best of my knowledge they still haven't found out what happened. 63 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:39,840 You didn't arrange that. 64 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:42,840 No I didn't arrange anything. 65 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:44,840 Wow what do you say to that? 66 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:46,840 Alright back in just a moment. 67 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:48,840 We're going to start from the very beginning. 68 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:50,840 We're going to let him think of the snort. 69 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:55,840 I see you try and try again unless you have another power failure and then you get the message that's out and go right on. 70 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:57,840 But we're going to try it again from the very beginning. 71 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:09,840 This is Betty Andreessen reliving under hypnosis a medical exam that, well I'm going to use the word allegedly occurred aboard a spacecraft. 72 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:14,840 I might go a little step ahead before we play the tape. 73 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:18,840 The conclusion of the report has been that Betty and her daughter were both telling the truth. 74 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:19,840 Something happened to them. 75 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:21,840 Yes they both believe it happened to them. 76 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:30,840 There's no doubt that lie detector tests a very rigid character reference check and a number of other things that we can go into later indicates that they're telling the truth as they know it to be. 77 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:36,840 Okay once again Betty Andreessen under hypnosis reliving that medical exam. 78 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:39,840 He's taking an instrument. 79 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:46,840 Oh. 80 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:55,840 Why do you have to put that in my nose? 81 00:06:55,840 --> 00:07:04,840 He's putting that thing in my nose and it's going up and it's breaking through something. 82 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:06,840 I don't like it. 83 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:09,840 Oh and I can't move. 84 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,840 It's hurting. 85 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:19,840 I'm pulling something that needle again with a tool like on the end. 86 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,840 It's pulling. 87 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:29,840 Looks like he's pulling it. 88 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:36,840 Oh and he's opening up that shirt and he's going to put that in my navel. 89 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:55,840 Oh I don't like this. 90 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,840 I can feel them moving that thing around in my stomach a little bit. 91 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,840 Body. 92 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:09,840 Andreessen how did you get involved in first of all investigating the case being with my cab you were called in. 93 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,840 Well actually not in the gap. 94 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:16,840 I'm director of investigations on the board of directors of the mutual UFO network headquarters in Saguine, Texas. 95 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,840 It happened in Massachusetts. 96 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:29,840 I resided in Massachusetts and the state director told me of the case and I became involved with the investigating team which consisted of a aerospace engineer, 97 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,840 an electric engineer, and communications specialist and myself. 98 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:38,840 There were five of us and we were constantly checking each other as we've gone through in a professional hypnotist. 99 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,840 We also engaged the services of a professional psychiatrist. 100 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:53,840 The investigation started in January of 1977 and continued for a full year and the final report consisted of 528 pages, three volumes. 101 00:08:53,840 --> 00:09:01,840 Thoroughly documenting this close encounter of the third kind type G which involves an onboard experience. 102 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:12,840 In your personal recollection did indeed what Betty Andreessen described during that hypnotic session actually occur to her? 103 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,840 I believe that probably most of it did. 104 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,840 We kind of proved that and why I say that is well first of all we know they believe it happened. 105 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,840 They relived it as a real experience. 106 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,840 Becky, her daughter, relived it from her own vantage point. 107 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:33,840 Three persons consciously remember the initial part of the experience, the father and the daughter and Betty. 108 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:42,840 I think it's interesting that you can go back to January 25, 1967 and check things like the weather, the power failure, how much snow was on the ground, 109 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,840 what was on TV and things like that. 110 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:51,840 We were able to do all kinds of checks like that which indicated that they were describing January 25, 1967. 111 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:58,840 What interests me the most is that we have about 200 cases on file very similar to the Andreessen affair. 112 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:05,840 There are subtle similarities which exist between these cases which we feel no way some of these witnesses could have known about. 113 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:06,840 For example? 114 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,840 The needle, for example, that was inserted in Betty's nose. 115 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,840 When they pulled that needle out there was a little BB-like ball on the end of it. 116 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:23,840 We know of one case that has never been published that has a similar thing happen during the physical examination. 117 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,840 Her description of the humanoids very similar to the Hill's case. 118 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,840 I think of a master sergeant who belongs to the human realm. 119 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,840 I don't know, where were you getting all these power failures? 120 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,840 Matter of fact, that's it. 121 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:46,840 In August of 1965, who had a very similar experience to Betty Andreessen, his description of the craft, the occupants, how they moved, or floated and so forth, 122 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,840 is very consistent with what Betty and others reported. 123 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:56,840 In the case of the master sergeant, he belongs to the Human Reliability Program which is a select group within the United States Air Force. 124 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,840 They have to pass a battery or psychiatric examination to the cream of the crop. 125 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,840 So there was no possibility of psychosis as a very intelligent man. 126 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,840 You have Betty Andreessen, you have a little country girl that has no knowledge of UFOs. 127 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:15,840 She had ten years of education, married the boy next door, raised seven kids one after the other, 128 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:23,840 and her life was mainly tied up bringing up children within the context of the local church and as she was interested in art. 129 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,840 As far as UFOs went, she didn't even know what a UFO was. 130 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:33,840 And if you told her what a UFO was, it would be really, I suppose, against her religious beliefs to even believe that UFOs existed. 131 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:42,840 But it was an awful time trying to convince her that hypnosis was something that was legitimate and could be used by surgeons and dentists, criminologists and so forth. 132 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:55,840 So we have a case where we have someone who had no background in UFOs and yet describes the same type of thing as other types of people from various walks of life have described in this country and abroad, which makes it very interesting. 133 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,840 What was the reaction of Betty Andreessen when you first approached her to investigate her experience? 134 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,840 Was she a little bit skeptical of UFOs? 135 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:18,840 Yes, she had a lot of questions. We originally came to know about the incident because she had written a letter to Dr. Jalen Heineck out of the Centrifu UFO studies in response to a newspaper article which indicated that he was interested in cases of this nature. 136 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:29,840 Unfortunately, all she could remember was the flashing lights, which I guess we never really went over the story, but they were flashing lights in the backyard, a local power blackout, interestingly enough. 137 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:45,840 And these beings somehow getting into the house, the father saw them out in the yard coming toward the house, but it was so vague that Dr. Heineck just filed it away for a few years and we came to know about it in 1977. 138 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,840 She was very interested. 139 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:48,840 So it's just 20 years then after the fact? 140 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:55,840 No, it happened on January 25, 1967, that we started in January of 1977. 141 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:56,840 Of course you should, 57. 142 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:03,840 But she was very relieved that someone might be able to help her discover what had happened. 143 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:11,840 Unfortunately, as she began to relive this under hypnosis and it came to a conscious mind, she thought she was going to be losing her mind. These things don't happen. 144 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:19,840 And we killed two birds with one stone. We had her sit with us a psychiatrist to assure her that she wasn't a psychotic. 145 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:27,840 She felt that she must need medical attention because things like this don't happen, but also to assure us that we weren't dealing with a psychotic. 146 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,840 Let me interrupt you. We'll continue our discussion right after news from CBS. You stand by, won't you? 147 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:40,840 You know, when Project Blue Book was closed officially, so to speak, by the Air Force, they made the statements that they were able to pretty well discount. 148 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:48,840 I forget the exact figure. 95, 98% of all sightings or reports, they were able to explain them. 149 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,840 But it left that 2 or 3%. 150 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,840 Among the 2 or 3%, would you include in this the Andreas and Affair? 151 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,840 Yes, I would, but the 2 or 3% is a very, very low figure. 152 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:09,840 Dr. Heineck, who is Chief Scientific Consultant to Project Signed, Roger Blue Book has indicated that the true percentage was somewhere around 20%. 153 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:19,840 And I think this came across very clearly in the movie, TV movie on Project Blue Book that was shown for maybe a year or so. 154 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:30,840 And I think it's indicated a high percentage, just 20%. Other countries, UFO projects also come up with this 20%, which remain unexplained after investigation. 155 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:37,840 Just because someone reports a UFO doesn't make it a UFO. It only remains a UFO after investigation. I can't find an explanation. 156 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:46,840 Before we go to our phones, how about explaining to the listeners and to me too, for that matter, what exactly happened to Betty and Becky Andreas and on January 25th of 67? 157 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,840 Okay, and that particular evening, about 6.35pm, there was an intermittent power failure. 158 00:14:52,840 --> 00:15:00,840 Simultaneous with that, there was a flashing orange light which came through the kitchen window, which overlooks a huge field. 159 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,840 The children were scared. Mrs. Andreason showed her 7 children into the living room. 160 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:11,840 And she had her parents staying with her to take care of the children because her husband was in the hospital at the time. 161 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:19,840 Her father ran to the kitchen window and looked out and claimed he saw what looked like children dressed in strange Halloween costumes. 162 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,840 This is what his description of these beings were coming toward the house. 163 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:29,840 On second look, though, he saw that they weren't walking, but they were moving, floating with a hopping motion. 164 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,840 All you can remember after that is them somehow getting in the house. 165 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:38,840 They did enter the house. Mrs. Andreason communicated with them through mental telepathy. 166 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,840 The members of the family seemed to have just frozen in motion for want of a better term. 167 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,840 We called it, we call it suspended animation. 168 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:52,840 Mrs. Andreason was very concerned about her family and they allowed Becky Andreason, she was 11 years old at the time, 169 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,840 to come out of this state of suspended animation to assure Mrs. Andreason that she was alright. 170 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:05,840 On the hypnosis, Becky lives this portion of the experience very vividly, describing as an 11 year old, 171 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:10,840 although she talked like an 11 year old under hypnosis, used in the 11 year old vocabulary, 172 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,840 described little clay creatures or men rather talking to her mother. 173 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:23,840 And then to make a long story short, they convinced Betty Andreason to follow them to a craft which is out in the backyard. 174 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:30,840 She felt that she had free will but looking back hindsight, felt that they had complete control over everything that she did. 175 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,840 The craft was very small. They stayed in that craft for a fairly long time. 176 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,840 She felt heaviness and so forth and then it stopped and she felt that she was taking aboard a larger craft, 177 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:45,840 where she was subjected to the effects of a number of very very strange instruments. 178 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:55,840 Then she was brought to an alien place where she had more experiences and then brought back to the craft and returned to her home. 179 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:02,840 It's a fascinating story. I think the Andreason affair probably is the most documented account of its kind. 180 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:08,840 One of the interesting things about the Andreason affair is we have a woman who is an excellent amateur artist 181 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:14,840 and she was given post-synoptic suggestion to remember these things in detail after each hypnotic regression session 182 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:21,840 and she was able to supply us with a chronological account with her drawings in great detail, 183 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:26,840 most of which the major ones are included in the book. 184 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:35,840 One of the interesting things though concerning the case which I feel to mention before is that one of the investigators was an aerospace engineer 185 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:42,840 and he asked Mrs. Andreason to describe each segment of the craft that she was in, 186 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,840 how she entered that room and how she left the room, what the dimensions were, 187 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:52,840 and then he took all of this information aside and was able to come up with a logical, very coherent, 188 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,840 strecula shaped craft which really amazed him. 189 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,840 He was very skeptical about this whole thing at first. 190 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,840 That sort of convinced him that they might be some legitimacy to the case. 191 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,840 How long a period, or timeframe now, does this take place? 192 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:16,840 Did the rest of the family remain in this state of suspended animation while Betty and Becky were wherever it was they went to? 193 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:25,840 It started at approximately 6.35. They returned to the house at 10.40 and we estimate probably the aliens left 194 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,840 probably between 10.40 and 11.00, probably close to maybe quarter, 11.00. 195 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,840 The abduction experience we feel is about 3 hours and 40 minutes. 196 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,840 The whole experience, maybe 4 hours and a half. 197 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:42,840 Any ideas on was she indeed transported in that vehicle somewhere? 198 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,840 It would seem to be that. That's the apparent stimulus. 199 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,840 We kind of proved that. 200 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,840 All you can say is that what she described aboard the craft, what she described during the physical examination, 201 00:18:54,840 --> 00:19:02,840 has been described by others from various walks of life in this country and abroad who essentially described similar things, 202 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,840 of which she wouldn't have been aware of at all. 203 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:14,840 It's hard to prove something like this. You have to use the tools that you do have, lie detector tests, character reference checks. 204 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:21,840 The same way you deal with a criminal case, you don't have physical evidence of any kind for something like this. 205 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,840 Almost nine years went by before Betty Andreessen ever mentioned this to anyone, didn't it? 206 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:31,840 They discussed it within the context of their own family. She did discuss it with her sister. 207 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:41,840 She, not knowing that much about UFOs, was trying to explain it within the context of her very simple Christian faith, really. 208 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,840 She found nothing that really gave her any answers. 209 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:53,840 Strange things that she couldn't remember had happened to her, but there were just flashbacks of things that had happened. 210 00:19:53,840 --> 00:20:00,840 She couldn't hold it in her mind until this hypnotic regression situation took place. 211 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,840 Back in just a moment. Now let's go to our long distance line and long distance where are you calling from? 212 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,840 Nobody there? The phone's all the rest? 213 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:17,840 Well, I can't understand what you're saying to me. What does that mean? You're shaking your head no. 214 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,840 Drop it, put it on hold, now watch. 215 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,840 Okay, we'll go up here and find out. Good morning, you're on KTRH. 216 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:26,840 Hello? 217 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:32,840 Yes. Hello there. Hello there. 218 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,840 I hear somebody. 219 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:41,840 Well, we'll get it straightened out and we'll figure out what's wrong with their phones and our power. 220 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,840 You didn't bring this with you, did you? Who knows what I brought with me? 221 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,840 We're going to try it one more time now to the long distance line and long distance where are you? 222 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,840 Hello, this is Liana. 223 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:52,840 Alright, Lusiana, go ahead. 224 00:20:52,840 --> 00:21:00,840 This is Spooky. I'm getting a little spook. No, please, good morning. I'm listening to your show this morning with great interest. 225 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,840 I would like to ask Mr. Fowler a couple questions. 226 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,840 One is about a kind of sighting, if he's ever heard of this. 227 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:16,840 It's sort of on a very clear day, a sunny day, not a cloud in the sky. 228 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:31,840 What would look like maybe a white cloud just moving across the sky slowly and then all of a sudden appear in this like a swarm of what look like either birds, 229 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,840 but couldn't have been birds, it was too high or maybe in the shape of airplanes. 230 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:48,840 Now, I know you couldn't have a swarm of airplanes, but a very peculiar cloud like formation and then suddenly disappear, just vanish completely. 231 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,840 Have you ever heard of anything like this? Has anyone? 232 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,840 Did the cloud disappear and the objects disappear or just? 233 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,840 The whole thing, it was like looking, it was transparent. 234 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:15,840 Well, the only type of case which I can think that might be similar to that would be the type, what we call a type two B case where you have an object that's shaped like a cylinder surrounded with a cloudy substance. 235 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:29,840 Usually it goes into a vertical mode and smaller objects come out of the top or bottom of this object and streak off in various directions and then it goes back to a horizontal mode and moves off. 236 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:53,840 Nothing like this other than with out of a clear solid blue sky, not a cloud, appear a white cloud and then with clear up and you could see like a swarm of objects in the white, absolutely white and then all of a sudden just vanish and be looking again at the blue sky. 237 00:22:53,840 --> 00:23:08,840 Now, we thought maybe this were birds, like the egrets often appear to be white, silver white in the sky and maybe flopping their wings would have given a different shadow, but they would just disappear completely. 238 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:14,840 I was just curious to see, this happened over Lathi just a few weeks ago. 239 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:27,840 It sounds very interesting that we have had reports like that where something has materialized, again with the smaller objects, but not just disappearing all of a sudden unless you happen to blink your eye when everything just moved off very, very fast. 240 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:43,840 We were testing every morning to say, what do you see? Do you see it now? Has it disappeared? We're two very solid people. There was no hysteria, there was just an ordinary day riding in a car when this was seen. 241 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:54,840 Well, we certainly would have investigated that and looked into it a little bit if you had reported it at the time and were able to supply the date and the time and place to local people. What was your second question? 242 00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:21,840 The second one was, can you say something about mentally, telepathically, someone being impressed with a face? Now, this is not in the mind's eye, it's an imagination sort of thing, but like on a screen flash, a person, a face of a person and being told or made to know, I'm from a, this sounds so straight, 243 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:39,840 but I'm from a UFO, I'm from, I'm extraterrestrial, I am a visitor and only that. But it's totally telepathically and not an imagination sort of thing, but like on a screen, a mind screen. 244 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:54,840 I'm not a parapsychologist, but being involved in UFO investigation have come across reports similar to that, but I really can't comment intelligently on something like that because I'm not a parapsychologist. 245 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,840 Are you objective in your investigation? 246 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:23,840 I believe we are. In fact, I'm probably acknowledges probably one of the most objective investigators in the United States and I think my buddies who saw me produce this book wondered if I had lost all sense of objectivity and I'm really going on a limb really as far as my reputation goes in bringing this book, the Andreus and the Fear, out. 247 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:42,840 As I mentioned before, we decided this was too strange to have just one person investigate that we had a team of five and most of this team of five are engaged in scientific research and engineering research within the civilian scientific community and are really objective people. 248 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:58,840 All five investigators in their initial individual evaluations in this 528 page report indicated that they believe that the Andreus and the Fear involved people who were telling the truth, who knew what to be, and that there was a real experience there. 249 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:09,840 It was a sign that something really is happening to these people, especially since other cases exist similar to this. If this was just a unique case, I wouldn't be interested. 250 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:20,840 But you did not go all the way to the point or all the investigators who are saying that yes, Betty Andreus and Becky Andreus did have a close encounter of the third type. 251 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:32,840 Yes, whatever that is, it's a close encounter of the third kind type G. Now the apparent stimulus for something like that is obviously extraterrestrial, but to accept the extraterrestrial hypothesis without physical proof would be non-scientific. 252 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:51,840 We brought to bear upon the case those tools which are used by the criminologists as a type of evidence, if you will, that probably could send a man to jail, eyewitness testimony, character reference checks, lie detector tests, hypnotic regression, and other types of tests that were reused psychiatric examinations. 253 00:26:51,840 --> 00:27:13,840 We brought to bear upon the case what we could, almost like a detective trying to solve a mystery. But when you get right down to brass tacks as it were, you need physical evidence to say without a shadow of a doubt that this was a close encounter of the third kind type G which involved real extraterrestrial beings and a real abduction. 254 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,840 How do you go about proving something like this? 255 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,840 I want to explore with you in just a moment. 256 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,840 I ask you to explore with you this possibility of proving beyond a shadow of a doubt when it's occurred. 257 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:39,840 If indeed this sort of visitation did happen, it would seem that somewhere that the amount of evidence that you could develop, either in terms of evidence of a spaceship landing, evidence of, well let's talk about maybe some of the unrealistic or realistic things. 258 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:45,840 If all of these creatures did appear in the home, maybe they left a whisper out or something behind or something of this nature. 259 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,840 Radar sightings or whatever, and I'm sure you've gone through all of these too. 260 00:27:50,840 --> 00:28:08,840 Yeah, let's just comment on a different type of case, a close encounter of the third kind which involves not only occupants being seen, close encounter of the third kind of variety of these type of cases, type G is where a person allegedly has communication with occupants on board a UFO. 261 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:14,840 Let's take a close encounter of the third kind which is also a close encounter of the second kind where there's physical evidence. 262 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,840 And let's pick one out of the files of the United States Air Force's Project Blue Book. 263 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:28,840 On April 24th, 1964, Lonnie Zamora, a policeman, was chasing a speeding car on South Park Street of Socorro, New Mexico. 264 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:34,840 He saw a silver object descending rapidly out of the sky near a dynamite shack in a loud roaring sound. 265 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:42,840 His first thought was that the dynamite shack had blown up. He broke off his chase, radioed headquarters and told them that he was going to investigate. 266 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:48,840 He proceeded toward the dynamite shack and stopped on a hill and looked down into a gully. 267 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:56,840 And there was an oval craft with what he described as two childlike figures in coveralls examining the object. 268 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,840 He thought it must be a car that has overturned or something. He still couldn't accept what he saw. 269 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,840 He radioed the headquarters and asked for backup and continued down into the gully where he lost sight of the object, 270 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:12,840 got up on another hill just above the gully and got out of the cruiser in advance within 100 feet of that object. 271 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:23,840 The occupants were gone. There was a roaring sound and the object lifted off the ground with sort of a very, very blue flame or plasma like material coming out of the bottom. 272 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:32,840 And then that stopped and the roar stopped and it just sat there motionless about 15 feet above the ground. 273 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,840 And then it moved off with a strange up and down motion and out of sight. 274 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:44,840 He tried by the way when he first saw it to contact headquarters by radio and his radio would not work. 275 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:52,840 Moments later the state police arrived. They went down into the area and found four impressions and a series of burnt areas 276 00:29:52,840 --> 00:30:00,840 where the object appeared to have come in and then left. They notified the Air Force. The Air Force investigated. 277 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:09,840 They found by means of a penetometer that it would have been at least one ton of weight on each one of those indentations. 278 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,840 The heat was tremendous. It cracked rocks. 279 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:18,840 A total of 13 witnesses were found that either saw or heard this particular object. 280 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,840 The United States Air Force still has classified this sighting as out of an unknown vehicle. 281 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:35,840 Now this is typical of other cases like this. The only difference between this type of case and the Andreessen affair case is that Lonnie tomorrow didn't talk to these beings and was not brought aboard. 282 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:45,840 So it would seem that close encounters with the third kind type G could be a logical extension of a type of UFO experience which has left physical data behind. 283 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:59,840 Now what is it going to take then? What sort of information or evidence is going to be necessary to make or to bring this out of the realm of some people's fantasy and make it unmistakably fact? 284 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:05,840 I think admission in the part of the government that solid evidence does exist. I'm not sure they know what they're dealing with. 285 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,840 I'm sure that they know that they're dealing with unknown vehicles from an unknown source which they have no control over whatsoever. 286 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:19,840 One of the interesting things that has come to light within the past few weeks is a summary report from the government of France to the Center for UFO Studies. 287 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:27,840 Dr. Claude Poir, a director of a civilian French government sponsored UFO project is on our board of directors. 288 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:47,840 In 1977 the French government seemingly took the UFO problem, at least partially out of the hands of the military, and commissioned a team of scientists to look at 11 close encounters of the third kind, one of which involved occupants in communication. 289 00:31:47,840 --> 00:32:05,840 They spent the year of 1978 looking at these particular cases. The Center for UFO Studies received several weeks ago a summary of a five volume report which is still classified, a secret, that indicates that, and this is the conclusion of the report, 290 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:15,840 10 out of the 11 cases were found not to be misinterpretation of natural phenomena or misidentification of man-made devices, nor were they hoaxes. 291 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:34,840 And the conclusion of this study of these 11 cases indicated a very strong statement. Behind the UFO phenomenon there exists a flying machine whose motive, sustenance, and propulsion is currently beyond the scope of current present day science. 292 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:53,840 Originally when that project was set up, Dr. Claude Poir indicated that the results of this project would be made public, that the five volume report would be sent to people in this country in a broader study, but the French government has classified this secret, 293 00:32:53,840 --> 00:33:03,840 and we don't know when the full results of this particular study will be made public, except for the summary report that was released to the Center for UFO Studies. 294 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:18,840 So I think it's going to take something like the government to release the information that is presently holding on UFOs to at least convince the public that UFOs are real, although the last Gallup poll indicates that 57% of the American people believe that UFOs are real, 295 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,840 and that they have seen a UFO. That's about 15 million Americans. 296 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:43,840 From time to time through the Freedom of Information Act we have acquired some very spectacular military reports involving radar visual sightings, weapon systems control panels being disrupted, smaller missiles being fired from larger UFOs at interceptors causing disruption of navigational equipment, communications equipment. 297 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:51,840 You read these things and you read these twixes. They're addressed to the White House, the Secretary of the State, Defense, all the heads of the intelligence agencies, Joint Chiefs of Staff. 298 00:33:51,840 --> 00:34:06,840 Something is going on somewhere, and these twixes, telegrams classified, telegrams contain some very, very hard information. We've been very fortunate to have got information like that into our hands. 299 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,840 Morning, Iran, KTRH. 300 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,840 Okay. I'm trying to be totally frightened. I have a couple questions. 301 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,840 Alright, go ahead. 302 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:22,840 What does a person do? Are we just totally helpless? What if you see something like that? Do you rhyme? Do you commit? 303 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:33,840 The government has really not recognized that this exists as far as protecting the citizen of the world. What are we supposed to do? You're supposed to walk around thinking any minute you're going to get picked up. 304 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:45,840 I don't want to live that type of life even though I do believe this does exist. Has there been any study as far as how do you react if you're caught in this type of situation? 305 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:52,840 I don't know. If I were you, though, I don't think I would dwell on it and worry about it. That's for sure. That's not going to cause you all kinds of problems. 306 00:34:52,840 --> 00:35:05,840 However, we were talking during the break that it seemed to me that the kind of evidence that it was going to take to really convince, well, even me and a lot of other people, would be the classic kind of take me to your leader kind of experience. 307 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:12,840 And you were telling me that the government has already initiated a study on just how to approach that kind of potential problem, haven't you? 308 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:18,840 I was nearly one in co-ordinated for the University of Colorado UFO study sponsored by the United States Air Force. 309 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:27,840 And during an investigation, we had two scientists fly out to my home to investigate some very strange UFO sightings that occurred in Massachusetts. 310 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:39,840 And at that time, they told me that part of their job was to ascertain what would the government do if a UFO landed on the White House lawn, for example. 311 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:45,840 Interestingly enough, the Condon Report never contained any such report at all. 312 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:51,840 One wonders how many other reports that went to the University of Colorado never got printed. 313 00:35:51,840 --> 00:36:02,840 One of the reports, for example, that we investigated involved two trained observers, former aircraft spotters and amateur astronomers using binoculars and a telescope and naked eye, 314 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:09,840 a signaling to a UFO with a flashlight. And they were, the scientists were very intrigued with this report and put some credence in it. 315 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,840 But it never appeared in the final report. And there are a lot of reports like that that never appeared in the final report. 316 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:30,840 Now, there have been instances of the accounts and of the sightings that remain, let's say, still classified as unknown, where hostile action was encountered on part of the UFO. 317 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:47,840 There have been some cases, for example, at Otis Air Force Base, for example, in May of 1953, we have a mass asidant who was involved in search for a missing aircraft, which told us, who told us a very interesting story. 318 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:58,840 Ground radar had picked up unidentified flying objects off the coast of Boston, and they sent F-94C or weather gen interceptor to look into the situation. 319 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:07,840 The interceptor took off and was over the gunnery range and all communication navigational systems went dead and then the aircraft engine cut out. 320 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:16,840 And the pilot ejected the canopy, cockpit canopy and ejected himself thinking the radar operator would follow suit. 321 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:22,840 And his parachute opened just in time. There was no crash. He couldn't figure everything. It was very, very quiet. 322 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:30,840 And he landed and he went to the nearest house and knocked on the door and called the Air Force Base and told them what happened. 323 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:37,840 They found the canopy over the weapons range, then find the aircraft, then find the radar operator. 324 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:43,840 He said that the mother came out, then spent three months living on base hoping to find her son. 325 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,840 He said there's no way that that thing could have kept on going out to the ocean, which was several miles off. 326 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:54,840 He said it was falling like lead. There was just no way. The plane completely disappeared. 327 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,840 Now there are a number of planes that have disappeared. All crashed, chasing UFOs. 328 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,840 And if you consider this hostility, I really don't know. 329 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:11,840 There was one report that these are in the minority, but let me give you an example of a little boy in Bealdsville, Ohio, who went out to get some water with a metal bucket 330 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:21,840 and returning to his house. He saw this typical oval UFO hovering at treetop level and a ball of fire seemed to emanate from it and come after him. 331 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:30,840 And he began running and the ball of fire hit him and knocked him to the ground and his clothes, his autocote caught fire and he caught fire, really. 332 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,840 The grandmother and the mother heard him screaming and came out and watched this boy. 333 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,840 They saw this boy rolling over and over. They went out and saw the object. There was a local power failure. 334 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:46,840 It only lasted about 30 seconds to a minute. They managed to put the fire out and they called a sheriff. 335 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:53,840 He informed NiCamp in the Air Force and the boy was brought to the hospital and treated for minor burns. 336 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,840 Now what we make of this is this hostile action. 337 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:03,840 The metal bucket that he was carrying initiates some type of protective action on part of the UFO. 338 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:13,840 The sheriff was convinced it wasn't a hoax, but these cases are in the minority and they might be akin to some native who has never seen an airplane before, 339 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:21,840 watching an airplane land on the jungle and the occupants leave the airplane, but they leave the propeller going and the native goes walking up to the airplane and sticks his head in the propeller. 340 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:27,840 And then his buddy's blame it on the airman. Who knows what's going on here.